elexis.info
Replies: 15 comments 26 replies
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I don't know @debenol1 could you gather some infos on this? |
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as the great founder of elexis requested: the open source version shall always be able to run a practice in switzerland. Therefore it will become open source when there's a version worth implementing. 😉 |
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Thanks! It's always great to be remembered. The deadline would be 2024-12-31 ;-) |
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Oh no, then we will be late... We plan to integrate on 2025-12-31 the latest! 😉
…________________________________
From: rgwch ***@***.***>
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2025 12:12:30 PM
To: elexis/elexis.github.io ***@***.***>
Cc: Julian Kappis ***@***.***>; Comment ***@***.***>
Subject: Re: [elexis/elexis.github.io] Tardoc (Discussion #9)
Thanks! It's always great to be remembered. The deadline would be 2024-12-31 ;-)
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Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub<#9 (reply in thread)>, or unsubscribe<https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ABKANO472DFIIMKVCEOK7DD2PR4Z5AVCNFSM6AAAAABWYUGNMWVHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43URDJONRXK43TNFXW4Q3PNVWWK3TUHMYTEMJYGY2TCMQ>.
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Grmbml! time flies. For me, it's always 1982 anyway. |
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Please develop the tardoc plugin in a way that it will be useable for practitioners in the french and italian speaking part of Switzerland. |
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Sorry for being a bit nervous... Are we on a good way? 
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The current progress of tardoc in Elexis master:
Currently we are working on printing of tarmed xml 5.0. |
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Thanks! How will the data import be available? If I understand it correctly, oaat-otma gives the tardoc in database form only to licensed users (https://oaat-otma.ch/gesamt-tarifsystem/tarifkomponenten-und-software). ok the license is free until now, but we don't know for how long... Will Medelexis have a license to distribute the code or will every user have to get their own license? |
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Medelexis is registered at the OAAT-OTMA site and has access to the tarif components and the software. The tarif software is part of the open source arzttarife bundle, for trigger of Ambulante Pauschalen. Medelexis will distribute the tarif components to its users. Open Source users will have to register themself at the OAAT-OTMA site and download the correct files for import in Elexis. Just like tarmed but 3 instead of 1 file. |
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Okay, which do we need? I had not the time to analyze the access db... 
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We need:
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Thanks. Wow I checked the tarmed XML 5.0 https://www.forum-datenaustausch.ch/de/xml-standards-formulare/release-50-500/generelle-rechnung-50/. They are really making every effort to provide developers with enough work. IIRC that's the fourth design change in the last 10 years. |
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So I cloned elexis-3-core/master and elexis-3-base/master and loaded both in a new Eclipse 2025-9 Workspace with Java 21. That worked. Elexis starts and connects with a copy of my database. But no Tardoc. create table if not exists tardoc (
lastupdate bigint
id varchar(40),
deleted char(1),
parent varchar(32),
digniQuanti varchar(5),
digniQuali varchar(255),
sparte varchar(4),
gueltigVon varchar(8),
gueltigBis varchar(8),
nickname varchar(25),
tx255 varchar(255),
code varchar(25),
law varchar(3),
isChapter char(1),
);
create table if not exists ch_elexis_arzttarife_ch_ambulantepauschalen(
lastupdate bigint,
id varchar(40),
deleted char(1),
code varchar(25),
validFrom char(8),
validTo char(8),
tp char(8),
digniQuali varchar(255),
chapter varchar(255),
text varchar(255),
typ varchar(15)
);
create table if not exists tardoc_extension(
lastupdate bigint,
id varchar(40),
deleted char(1),
code varchar(32),
limits blob,
med_interpret blob,
tech_interpret blob
);
create table if not exists tardoc_group(
lastupdate bigint,
id varchar(40),
deleted char(1),
groupName varchar(32),
services blob,
law char(3),
validFrom char(8),
validTo char(8)
);
create table if not exists tardoc_definitionen(
lastupdate bigint,
id varchar(40),
deleted char(1),
spalte varchar(20),
kuerzel varchar(5),
titel varchar(255),
law char(3)
);
create table if not exists tardoc_kumulation(
lastupdate bigint,
id varchar(40),
deleted char(1),
masterCode varchar(25),
masterArt char(1),
slaveCode varchar(25),
slaveArt char(1),
typ char(1),
view char(1),
validSide char(1),
validFrom char(8),
validTo char(8),
law char(3)
);Bazong! Tardoc is in the codes-View, and I can import Then I created a new "Abrechnungssystem" tardoc and a new "fall" with that ABrechnungssystem. Then I openend a new "Konsultation" with that Fall and gave it a date in january 2026. What am I missing? |
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The tables and indexes should be initialized by liquibase see https://github.com/elexis/elexis-3-core/blob/master/bundles/ch.elexis.core.jpa/db/elexisdb_create_optional.xml . If it does not happen we saw databases that have been connected to master where those changesets are in databasechangelog, but have not been executed. After the removing them the table creation is executed as expected. delete from databasechangelog
where author = 'thomas'
and id in ('manual_TARDOC', 'manual_TARDOC_DATEN','manual_TARDOC_DEFINITIONEN','manual_TARDOC_EXTENSION','manual_TARDOC_KUMULATION',
'manual_TARDOC_GROUP','manual_idx_TARDOC2','manual_idx_TARDOC3','manual_idx_TARDOC4','manual_idx_TARDOC5','manual_idx_TARDOCDEFINITIONEN',
'manual_idx_TARDOCDEFINITIONEN_IDX1','manual_idx_TARDOCKUMULATION','manual_idx_TARDOCKUMULATION_IDX1','manual_idx_TARDOC_ID',
'manual_idx_TARDOC_CODE_IDX','manual_table_CH_ELEXIS_ARZTTARIFE_CH_AMBULANTEPAUSCHALEN','manual_idx_CH_ELEXIS_ARZTTARIFE_CH_AMBULANTEPAUSCHALEN',
'manual_table_CH_ELEXIS_ARZTTARIFE_CH_AMBULANTEPAUSCHALEN_TYP');
Please check the Mandant settings if TARDOC is available under codes, but not under Leistungen. |
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Thanks, indeed after deleting there happens a lot more than before: I'm using MariaDB. Could that be a problem? Anyway: It works! |
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First glance: The bill looks great, only I did not make any medical services. Only "Übrige". 
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TARDOC was added as |
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It looks much better. Only I lost my last name now, at least in the "LeistungserbringerIn" Section. 
And also the name in the heading of the Rückforderungsbeleg is a bit funny. Probably I should enter my name somewhere differently? 
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Ok, I tried with several databases, but the new tables were never created automatically. Probably that's a difference between the OpenSource Database and the Medelexis Database. So I kept the update script as an optional part of my Upgrade-HowTo: https://www.elexis.ch/ungrad/reference/upgrade2026/ BTW: First Item on the wishlist: Filter the "Leistungen" view, so only positions matching the configured "Dignität" are shown. (Instead of an error alert box when trying to use such a position). |
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I found the reason why db update was not performed correct with the master branch. That should be fixed with elexis/elexis-3-core@3221147 and the following commit. |
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Probably I got this wrong, bit why can't I delete a billing? Shouldn't it be the other way round? If Override is allowed, delete is ok? Where can I grant this anyway? Removal of billings must always be possible (until the bill is created, of course). |
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This code is only relevant if the Actually the code has been copied from Manual deleting of |
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However I can delete billings with this trivial patch: |
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The preference to allow overriding strict validation was not implemented correct. It blocked deleting IBilled in general, not only if an invalid IBilled should be deleted. 
That should be fixed now for tarmed. elexis/elexis-3-base@9fa5a35 For TARDOC the overriding strict validation is now implemented separately. elexis/elexis-3-base@f3978f0 |
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After having installed the updates in an existing Elexis 3.12 (postgres DB) environment I receive the following exception stack trace during the Elexis startup: Although the tables are created the Tardoc functionalities are not working. Any ideas? |
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I just tested with a 3.12 Installation, and could not reproduce this problem. To me this looks like there is something wrong with the installation. These are the features of my installation. Please check your Installation. Maybe a core update helps as |
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Thats its. Its working now! |
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In addition to the new tariff, new multiplier values of the billing systems are needed for correct billing. We looked at the billing systems if there is a need for new billing system definitions or new multipliers for existing billing systems are enough. The configuration The new multipliers will be automatically configured once on startup. Because KVG multipliers are Kanton dependent, there will be a warning if the Kanton could not be determined from the Tarmed config of the mandators. Please comment if we missed something. |
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Thanks for mentioning that, I missed it totally.... But I'm no sure I understand what you're saying. I tried this configuration: 
Which is not respekted at all by Tardoc: It calculates always 1.0 So where should I ocnfigure the Multiplier? |
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So there is no need for a new Abrechnungssystem for tardoc, as the existing depending on the law (KVG, ...) can be used. |
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Yes, the multiplicator is applied correctly now (but at least in my case, I still have to enter it manually) |
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Note: My non-medical billing system (based on custom billing positions) doesn't work anymore: 
The log says: |
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Is it possible that this billing law has no defaultBillingLaw entry in the config table? Is that on purpose? For example such an entry for billing system UVG from the config table. lastupdate param wert 1623662145120 billing/systems/UVG/defaultBillingLaw UVG Currently every billing system is expected to have such an entry. |
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That's perfectly possible. I think I didn't look at this code for 15 Years or so.... |
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setting defaultBillingLaw for Elexis-Support to "ORG" made it available again. Thanks! |
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The bills are looking great now. |
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Ok, according to Forum Datenaustausch it's a series of Structured Append QR-Codes, made of the base64 encoded zipped XML Verison of the bill. Which sounds smart, but still leaves the question: Is there an existing app to verify such QR-Codes? |
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I could no find an app, and validated the result manually using a scanner and https://app.webacus.dev/+/zlib.inflate-raw . Validation from an insurance company has not been done yet. |
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So here we have a decoder for these QR sheets. https://github.com/rgwch/tardocbill-decoder And the good news is: First tests show that the correct XML is decoded from Elexis QR prints :-) |
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I suppose the plans for implementing the upcoming Tardoc-Tariff are on their way.
Will the Tardoc Plugin be included in the OpenSource build?
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